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T O P I C R E V I E Wazzure773I'm new to this board, but I've read a lot of posts and I see there are many budding astrologers here- and I was wondering could any of you more experienced, knowledgeable, oh-so-wise and helpful astrology gurus (i know i'm laying it on thick right?)help me out with this big problem I'm facing. Okay- my live in boyfriend and I are going through some real drama and I need to know if we have enough potential to last- or should I move on now.Here's our info...Me-7/24/19864:03pmChicago, ILMy man-3/26/19856:29amChicago, ILWhen I did our charts on astro.com I noticed some things i was curious about-composite sun in 4thcomposite venus in 5thcomposite eros in 1stcomposite moon trine neptunecomposite venus trine marscomposite venus, jupiter and mars trine plutocomposite vertex in 7thcompsite karma in 1stcomposite juno conjunct plutocomposite psyche conjunct sun & mercurycomposite moon sextile pallassynastry-my karma conjunct his mercury and venusmy amor conjunct his mercury, venus and ascendantmy valentine conjunct his mercury & venusmy north node conjunct his ascendantmy north node same sign conjunct his venus, sun & mercurydouble whammy- my juno conjunct his saturn, his juno sextile my saturnhis valentine conjunct my ascendant & saturnhis cupido conjunct my sun & mercuryhis vesta conjunct my saturnhis moon sextile my sunhis moon trine my cereshis saturn conjunct my ascendanthis vertex square my marsmy vertex square his mercury & venusdouble whammy sun trine saturnwe have a lot of bad too thoughdouble whammy sun & mercury square marsdouble whammy his venus square my mars, my venus trine his marsdouble whammy his venus trine my uranus, my venus square his uranusmy moon square his uranushis pluto square my sunmy neptune square his sunand there's like a thousand more but what's the overall analysis- good or bad? HELP!!!!lovegoblinif physical and verbal abuse is going on-its time to move on. no need to look at synastry at all if this is the case. i'm not trying to be mean about saying this at all. i hope you can move on. never let someone hit you ever. there is no excuse period. EVER!libraschoice7 It's true when a relationship turns violent and abusive it's time to leave and not look back, no matter what the composite says. Situations like that only get worse never better. Sorry I have to be so upfront, but you need to be careful...------------------Sun in LibraMoon in CancerJupiter in CancerVenus in VirgoMars in CancerAscendant in Cancerazzure773i'm sorry if my comment was misleading- but he has NEVER hit me- actually he just said something offensive and I ended up hitting him, and he ended up restraining me and trying to calm me down- but we have been exchanging verbal barrages a lot. I think we are both equally at fault for the "fights" we've had though. Mama MiaIt getting to that point is not good..AzalakshWhy do you think it's OK to hit your boyfriend?? Do you have some issues with self-control that you may need to work out before committing yourself to a live-in partnership?? And what especially about the possibility of bringing children into this situation??azzure773well I appreciate everyone's concern- and i know that our relationship is not very healthy at this point, but can somebody at least try to interpret our charts? i just need something concrete to go on...azzure773WOW I didn't think I'd be getting so much negative feedback- I was just sharing my situation, I never said it was ok- obviously it's not or i wouldn't be asking for advice. and just to let everybody know, i was asking for feedback about the relationship itself- not my personal situation. also- he knows how to push my buttons- he provokes me to the point that it's almost an instant reaction. BlueRoamerIf you post that you are physically abusive towards someone, you will always get a negative reaction from the general populus.You're not ready for a partnership, and neither is he. Time for some reflection on yourself and what's important to you in life.Move on, move on, move on.azzure773i know you guys are trying to be helpful but you are blowing this thing all out of proportion- THE FIGHT WE HAD WASN'T EVEN THAT SERIOUS- it was not life-threatening- he was not hurt and neither was i- all i want to know is DO WE HAVE ENOUGH POTENTIAL TO MAKE IT THROUGH THE BAD TIMES WE ARE GOING THROUGH. How is it that my words "physical fight & verbal abuse" get turned into a Lifetime movie network special- WE DON'T EVEN ARGUE MUCH, REALLY IT JUST STARTED- I'M JUST SCARED THAT IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE THAT'S WHY I NEED SOMEONE TO LOOK AT OUR CHARTS- I'M NOT MOVING ON JUST BECAUSE SOMEBODY THINKS I SHOULD-IF YOU'RE GOING TO RESPOND TO THIS COULD YOU AT LEAST DO WHAT I ASKED, EVEN IF YOU DO THINK IT'S A BAD SITUATION- I KNOW THAT- THAT'S WHY I WANT SOMEONE TO LOOK AT OUR CHARTS- ALL I WANT IS AN ANALYSIS- PLEASE STOP THE DRAMA AND ACTUALLY GIVE ME THE HELP I ASKED FOR- YOU CAN INCLUDE YOUR OPINION TOO IF YOU MUST- IT'S JUST INSANE THAT OUT OF ALL THESE REPLIES NO ONE HAS EVEN ATTEMPTED TO LOOK AT THE CHARTS- COULD SOMEONE JUST DO WHAT I ASKED - I'M BEGGING HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AzalakshSomething my ex and I learned from his Anger Management classes long ago:No one can MAKE you do or feel anything. YOU are responsible for your own actions and reactions. No one has the ability to push your buttons unless you LET them..... are you saying that your boyfriend maliciously "provokes" you??And I'm wondering why you are "yelling" at us but begging at the same time. You obviously know something about astrology. Of course there is potential in your relationship. But whether the potential can be expressed is up to the both of you and how MATURE you can/will be with the issues you confront.I think this quote from Steven Forrest may be apropos: quote:To me, in the realities of the astrological counselling room, there are two immutable premises: There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that is so inherently sweet that enough selfishness, confusion about sex, or immaturity cannot turn it sour. There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that is so inherently bitter that enough patience, devotion, and humility can not only make it last, but make it something precious to both people.PS: You are asking for free counselling by begging us to look at your charts. You admit your relationship is not healthy. Why do you think that a map of the stars is going to help a poor situation?? You are not your planets/signs. You are a human being with feelings and baggage. That astro-map can show you how to get from Alaska to Florida, but only YOU decide if you go by way of China, or never make it to Florida at all. We are not paid professionals, we are a group of sympathetic people interested in astrology, not in displays of temper tantrums.tinasparkleIf it's abusive in any way regardless of who initiates it, RUN! I don't care what the stars say,it can't be good for either one of you and you owe it to yourself and to him to get out and do it now. I have been there, it doesn't get better.TinasparkleMama MiaQuote: I'M JUST SCARED THAT IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE ...You already know the answer for yourself..I would trust myself better then any astrology period..azzure773yes and he's admitted that he tries to make me mad sometimes just because he is- but he just really deeply hurts me the way he goes about about it and yes it is malicious- but he's not it's just our anger gets out of control- can somebody please look at our charts...and we both made the promise to try and keep our cool and just talk things through rationally- i just want to get a professional analysis of our relationship itself, i know that love is strong enough to overcome any obstacle i just want to know if ours is! could you look at our charts and you can post whatever opinion you have with it, but i would really appreciate an analysis of our charts like i originally asked in my posts.chrissymgreenDear azzure773,I know that it probably goes without saying -- but I do think that if you guys are committed to making it work, it might be a good idea to see a therapist or a counselor together. There *are* astrological counselors out there, though you may have to search a bit to find one. I know of one in New York who is *amazing*. She is a professional astrologer who also has degrees in psychology (she specializes in Jungian).Anyway, that said, I took a peek at your composite, looking specifically at the composite nodes. It helps to remember that the entire composite chart is a map of midpoints--it isn't an actual chart in and of itself. The composite NN is the point where the two North Nodes meet, where the couple's growth as a unit needs to go. As two individuals work on their nodal tasks, the result of their efforts in terms of their relationship are reflected in the composite. Also, the 'given' in terms of relationship, what we don't have to work on, is reflected in the South Node. This is why I often give the South Node in the composite a lot more weight than the North Node, unless the couple is very much tuned in to growth and development. Anyway, your case with your boyfriend is indeed complex -- composite Pluto conjuncts composite SN in the 9th, in Scorpio. This points to a past together (SN) fraught with power struggles (Pluto) where sexuality (Scorpio) was abused or not dealt with properly, due to clashing beliefs/principles (9th house). This is a tough signature, but not necessarily a bad one.The key here is to focus on the composite NN, in Taurus in the 3rd. Communicate, communicate, communicate. In Taurus, you need to learn how to to communcate with each other in real-world terms, in ways that increase each other's sense of security (Taurus).This is emphasized by composite Mercury conjunct Chiron -- composite Chiron is a place where healing can be had, attained as a couple. Conjunct Mercury this shows that healing can be attained in communicating with each other -- of course, this also shows that there is a deep wound in this area. Much work may need to be done.That composite Merc/Chiron is part of a t-square in your composite -- that Me/Ch opposes Saturn/Uranus, and that opposition is squared by Mars/Jupiter. Lots of energy in this relationship, and it may take some work to get it flowing positively. Focus on the point opposite the apex -- this would be 7th house/Virgo. There's the communication theme again, with the sign of Virgo being highlighted. Try to develop a Virgonian approach with each other.I know I haven't even had a chance to look at your charts individually, which matters a great deal...but I am hoping that this little bit will help some.Take care of yourselves!Chrissyazzure773i totally agree with you! i think that our communication is what needs to be worked on for this relationship to have a chance at working- and it is going to be tough- but i know that we both are willing to give it a try!! thanks chrissychrissymgreenAll right, I went ahead and looked at your charts even though I'm totally blowing off last minute work I should be scrambling to do...(oh well, astrology's more fun, anyway)...So, I noticed right off the bat his Saturn is on your AC. This means he CAN be a bit of a "downer" for you...but it also indicates strong pull, heavy attraction, lots of "real world" stuff to work out together. You have a Juno/Saturn conjunction on your ascendant -- this is something similar to what one of my closest gal pals from college has, she has a Saturn/Juno conjunction on the DC. Saturn is where our fears/limitations reside...but it also where we can build something real in this life. With it conjunct Juno on your AC, part of your lessons in this lifetime revolve around issues of equal partnership, and this will not be easy for you to deal with (for where Saturn is, there is usually a lot of fear). You must learn to let go of your fear.Now that said, I saw that your nodal axis lies right on his AC/DC axis -- this is a very STRONG tie. It's one of the most common aspects in long-term (15+ years) marriages, that of the nodal axis of one person tied in with the angles of another.You *can* make this work, azzure, but 1st I do recommend seeing a professional of some sort so that you can get some good energy flowing between you two. wilsontcazzure,There are a lot of squares between yours and his personal planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Mars), indicating that your energies tend to "combine"...sometimes violently. You can work things out together...but not if either of you insists on slapping the other.Get ahold of yourself before this escalates any further, sit down with your boy friend, and see if you want to work things out between you. If you do, because of your anger issues, perhaps you want to have a "safe word", a word which you both know and which either one can use when someone "goes too far". Then you can stop what you are doing RIGHT THERE, calm down, and work things out between you. Beware of the "control games" on BOTH sides...they are death to a healthy relationship.Relating in a dangerous place,Timazzure773oh wow thank you- i really appreciate you taking the time out to help me out(especially when you had other things to do)!!! and you know what- i think i just might look into the counseling thing, maybe all we need is an outside party to help us see our negative behaviors and show us how to stop them!!! and you're right i do have a lot of fears that i need to let go of- Thanks againazzure773oh and thanks for the advice tim- that sounds like it might be worth trying as well- i just hope it works!!!! hey and-i really appreciate your efforts to help...i really needed some input- it's kinda scary when you really want to be with someone and it seems like it's about to fall apart, ya know? chrissymgreenDear azzure773,I totally understand. If there's one snippet of wisdom I can say that I have attained at this point in my life, it's the value in an objective assessment of one's various life situations/predicaments. And this is not always easy to do -- I was having a discussion with a friend about this once. We were talking about human nature and how there's one problem with psychological knowledge -- people have a very hard time applying it to themselves. He (my friend is a network engineer, so he works with computers) said he thought there was a clue to this from computer programming in a procedure called recursion. Recursion means making the program loop back on itself, to use its own information to do things over and overuntil it gets a result. You use recursion for certain data-sorting algorithms and things like that. It has to be done carefully, though, or the machine falls into what is called infinite regress. It's the programming equivalent of funhouse mirrors that reflect mirrors and mirrors, stretching into infinity. The program keeps going, repeating, but nothing happens. He told me he thought that something similar happens to people when they turn their psychological insight-apparatus on themselves. The brain hangs, going nowhere. It has to be that, because we know that people can think of themselves indefinitely. Some think of little else, and yet many never seem to change as a result of their self-introspection. They never understand themselves better. It's rare to find genuine self-knowledge.I think astrology is a gift which can help us in our search for self-knowledge. I struggled with my interest in astrology at first, due to my background in science/math. I found much writing on astrology lacking, until I discovered the works of Liz Greene and Jenny Wade in particular. Now I see the links between astrology and science -- both quantum physics and string theory have gone beyond Einstein's understanding of the universe, which we now know to be more interconnected than he could have imagined. Physics and astrology are coming together more and more, and one day perhaps our mortal minds willcrack the mystery of why symbolic languages (such as astrology) work. So I don't know why some folks reach backwards to try and prove something like this -- to me, it just isn't necessary. Let the material determinists and the rationalists have their day -- their world is crumbling, and most of them don't even know it. We live in a world where we know (or rather, string theory physicists know) that there are eleven other alternate dimensions sitting right next to/within ours -- we just can't access them with our pitiful three dimensional sense. Why look back, you know?I do wish you and your boyfriend much luck, warmth, and growth.Chrissyazzure773chrissy- you are such an intelligent and aware individual! i agree that people need to utilize their extensive self-knowledge and self-awareness to grow as individuals- otherwise all of that introspection turns into this black hole of stagnation, which is really hard to break out of. I am a living testimony of that fact- I used to spend hours and hours thinking about myself. it got to the point where i had retreated so far into myself that i ceased to function normally in most areas of my life- primarily socially though. it became extremely difficult even to talk to people outside of my mother and boyfriend(and even that was starting to become difficult), i was so paranoid and extreme- i didn't speak unless i was forced to and even then, i hardly made sense- i was blowing up all the time at the smallest of incidents,(hence the fights with my boyfriend)it was rough. i was starting to feel like this weird little hermit who nobody liked, and it was a self-fulfilling prophecy, i lost all my friends and associates. really, i'm just starting to get comfortable being around other people. basically, i just had to start making some serious changes to my mindset, because in truth, your mind determines the outcome of each situation in life, not the situation itself. it's mind-blowingly simple, the more positive your thoughts, the more positive your life becomes, and as long as you use that positive energy to make positive changes in your life and the lives of people around you- everything will turn out just fine. man i wish the majority of the population knew this, our world would be so much better off! i wish you the same!!!
My man-3/26/19856:29amChicago, IL
When I did our charts on astro.com I noticed some things i was curious about-
composite sun in 4thcomposite venus in 5thcomposite eros in 1stcomposite moon trine neptunecomposite venus trine marscomposite venus, jupiter and mars trine plutocomposite vertex in 7thcompsite karma in 1stcomposite juno conjunct plutocomposite psyche conjunct sun & mercurycomposite moon sextile pallas
synastry-my karma conjunct his mercury and venusmy amor conjunct his mercury, venus and ascendantmy valentine conjunct his mercury & venusmy north node conjunct his ascendantmy north node same sign conjunct his venus, sun & mercurydouble whammy- my juno conjunct his saturn, his juno sextile my saturnhis valentine conjunct my ascendant & saturnhis cupido conjunct my sun & mercuryhis vesta conjunct my saturnhis moon sextile my sunhis moon trine my cereshis saturn conjunct my ascendanthis vertex square my marsmy vertex square his mercury & venusdouble whammy sun trine saturn
we have a lot of bad too though
double whammy sun & mercury square marsdouble whammy his venus square my mars, my venus trine his marsdouble whammy his venus trine my uranus, my venus square his uranusmy moon square his uranushis pluto square my sunmy neptune square his sun
and there's like a thousand more but what's the overall analysis- good or bad? HELP!!!!
------------------Sun in LibraMoon in CancerJupiter in CancerVenus in VirgoMars in CancerAscendant in Cancer
You're not ready for a partnership, and neither is he. Time for some reflection on yourself and what's important to you in life.
Move on, move on, move on.
No one can MAKE you do or feel anything. YOU are responsible for your own actions and reactions. No one has the ability to push your buttons unless you LET them..... are you saying that your boyfriend maliciously "provokes" you??
And I'm wondering why you are "yelling" at us but begging at the same time. You obviously know something about astrology. Of course there is potential in your relationship. But whether the potential can be expressed is up to the both of you and how MATURE you can/will be with the issues you confront.
I think this quote from Steven Forrest may be apropos:
quote:To me, in the realities of the astrological counselling room, there are two immutable premises: There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that is so inherently sweet that enough selfishness, confusion about sex, or immaturity cannot turn it sour. There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that is so inherently bitter that enough patience, devotion, and humility can not only make it last, but make it something precious to both people.
There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that is so inherently sweet that enough selfishness, confusion about sex, or immaturity cannot turn it sour.
There is no manner of astrological interaction between two people that is so inherently bitter that enough patience, devotion, and humility can not only make it last, but make it something precious to both people.
Tinasparkle
You already know the answer for yourself..I would trust myself better then any astrology period..
I know that it probably goes without saying -- but I do think that if you guys are committed to making it work, it might be a good idea to see a therapist or a counselor together. There *are* astrological counselors out there, though you may have to search a bit to find one. I know of one in New York who is *amazing*. She is a professional astrologer who also has degrees in psychology (she specializes in Jungian).
Anyway, that said, I took a peek at your composite, looking specifically at the composite nodes. It helps to remember that the entire composite chart is a map of midpoints--it isn't an actual chart in and of itself. The composite NN is the point where the two North Nodes meet, where the couple's growth as a unit needs to go. As two individuals work on their nodal tasks, the result of their efforts in terms of their relationship are reflected in the composite. Also, the 'given' in terms of relationship, what we don't have to work on, is reflected in the South Node. This is why I often give the South Node in the composite a lot more weight than the North Node, unless the couple is very much tuned in to growth and development.
Anyway, your case with your boyfriend is indeed complex -- composite Pluto conjuncts composite SN in the 9th, in Scorpio. This points to a past together (SN) fraught with power struggles (Pluto) where sexuality (Scorpio) was abused or not dealt with properly, due to clashing beliefs/principles (9th house). This is a tough signature, but not necessarily a bad one.
The key here is to focus on the composite NN, in Taurus in the 3rd. Communicate, communicate, communicate. In Taurus, you need to learn how to to communcate with each other in real-world terms, in ways that increase each other's sense of security (Taurus).
This is emphasized by composite Mercury conjunct Chiron -- composite Chiron is a place where healing can be had, attained as a couple. Conjunct Mercury this shows that healing can be attained in communicating with each other -- of course, this also shows that there is a deep wound in this area. Much work may need to be done.
That composite Merc/Chiron is part of a t-square in your composite -- that Me/Ch opposes Saturn/Uranus, and that opposition is squared by Mars/Jupiter. Lots of energy in this relationship, and it may take some work to get it flowing positively. Focus on the point opposite the apex -- this would be 7th house/Virgo. There's the communication theme again, with the sign of Virgo being highlighted. Try to develop a Virgonian approach with each other.
I know I haven't even had a chance to look at your charts individually, which matters a great deal...but I am hoping that this little bit will help some.
Take care of yourselves!
Chrissy
So, I noticed right off the bat his Saturn is on your AC. This means he CAN be a bit of a "downer" for you...but it also indicates strong pull, heavy attraction, lots of "real world" stuff to work out together. You have a Juno/Saturn conjunction on your ascendant -- this is something similar to what one of my closest gal pals from college has, she has a Saturn/Juno conjunction on the DC. Saturn is where our fears/limitations reside...but it also where we can build something real in this life. With it conjunct Juno on your AC, part of your lessons in this lifetime revolve around issues of equal partnership, and this will not be easy for you to deal with (for where Saturn is, there is usually a lot of fear). You must learn to let go of your fear.
Now that said, I saw that your nodal axis lies right on his AC/DC axis -- this is a very STRONG tie. It's one of the most common aspects in long-term (15+ years) marriages, that of the nodal axis of one person tied in with the angles of another.
You *can* make this work, azzure, but 1st I do recommend seeing a professional of some sort so that you can get some good energy flowing between you two.
There are a lot of squares between yours and his personal planets (Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, and Mars), indicating that your energies tend to "combine"...sometimes violently. You can work things out together...but not if either of you insists on slapping the other.
Get ahold of yourself before this escalates any further, sit down with your boy friend, and see if you want to work things out between you. If you do, because of your anger issues, perhaps you want to have a "safe word", a word which you both know and which either one can use when someone "goes too far". Then you can stop what you are doing RIGHT THERE, calm down, and work things out between you. Beware of the "control games" on BOTH sides...they are death to a healthy relationship.
Relating in a dangerous place,
Tim
I totally understand. If there's one snippet of wisdom I can say that I have attained at this point in my life, it's the value in an objective assessment of one's various life situations/predicaments. And this is not always easy to do -- I was having a discussion with a friend about this once. We were talking about human nature and how there's one problem with psychological knowledge -- people have a very hard time applying it to themselves. He (my friend is a network engineer, so he works with computers) said he thought there was a clue to this from computer programming in a procedure called recursion. Recursion means making the program loop back on itself, to use its own information to do things over and overuntil it gets a result. You use recursion for certain data-sorting algorithms and things like that. It has to be done carefully, though, or the machine falls into what is called infinite regress. It's the programming equivalent of funhouse mirrors that reflect mirrors and mirrors, stretching into infinity. The program keeps going, repeating, but nothing happens. He told me he thought that something similar happens to people when they turn their psychological insight-apparatus on themselves. The brain hangs, going nowhere. It has to be that, because we know that people can think of themselves indefinitely. Some think of little else, and yet many never seem to change as a result of their self-introspection. They never understand themselves better. It's rare to find genuine self-knowledge.
I think astrology is a gift which can help us in our search for self-knowledge. I struggled with my interest in astrology at first, due to my background in science/math. I found much writing on astrology lacking, until I discovered the works of Liz Greene and Jenny Wade in particular. Now I see the links between astrology and science -- both quantum physics and string theory have gone beyond Einstein's understanding of the universe, which we now know to be more interconnected than he could have imagined. Physics and astrology are coming together more and more, and one day perhaps our mortal minds willcrack the mystery of why symbolic languages (such as astrology) work. So I don't know why some folks reach backwards to try and prove something like this -- to me, it just isn't necessary. Let the material determinists and the rationalists have their day -- their world is crumbling, and most of them don't even know it. We live in a world where we know (or rather, string theory physicists know) that there are eleven other alternate dimensions sitting right next to/within ours -- we just can't access them with our pitiful three dimensional sense. Why look back, you know?
I do wish you and your boyfriend much luck, warmth, and growth.
i wish you the same!!!
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